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MConsidering the rising crime against women I had a query on extent of self defence possible. Let’s say a man keeps staring at a woman in metro- can she retaliate now or let’s say can she retaliate if he touches her inappropriately. Please assume that it can be proven on camera that the person was making her in comfortable.
Will there be legal action against her? What kind? -
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THow? As far as internet sources tell, pepper spray is legal in India at least for women if purchased from reputed source and used in reasonable amounts, unless the one using pepper spray used it unprovoked or used it excessively, as it is a non lethal self defense weapon
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SHappy cake day boss
So the legality of usage of pepper spray is not really as clear cut as your are saying.
In this case where the OP is getting stared at and he/she uses a pepper spray – op will be charged with using excessive force.
Pepper spray is legal but usage is still measured on a case to case basis.
You can Google and find out that people have been charged with using excessive force for using a pepper spray in a bus and in a metro. In both cases the woman claims harassment/inappropriate touch – this essentially gives her the permission to use the pepper spray – BUT since this is a constricted public area she ended up causing hurt to tens of people around her who had done her no harm.
The court argues that she should’ve raised an alarm or called The cisf folks at the next step or just shouted and grabbed attention to the perpetrators but instead of doing any of those “alternates” she ended up using pepper spray in a constricted area causing harm to people – this inviting excessive force allegations
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BI think the law allows you to use equal force not more. You can’t kill someone because he or she stared.
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MNot staring, OP asked for groping. There is a difference. One offcourse can’t kill for this but equal force would mean what?? Can we use pepper spray? Those self defence pens for stabing thighs?? Or are those tiny electric shock devices legal in India?? I currently carry pepper sprayand those pointed pen kind of things for minor danger situations and a pocket knife in my key chain for grave danger situations. Would love to know if those tiny electric shock devices like stun guns are legal in India because those would come really handy in grave danger kjnd of situation as it would give enough time to escape.
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ABy law you can’t kill anyone
Though, some parts of law allows us to excert physical force to protect ourselves in an event of assault.
The amount of force should be proportional to the attacker and the motive of retaliation should be to avoid more harm.
It should never be an act of revenge.
Morally, society can treat a molestation on kids, women and men differently. So killing someone in case of kids or women sound morally just, but by law it’s not.
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SNope. You can’t shoot or stable them.
Please understand that laws in india don’t have the “stand my ground” rules as in the USA or specially Texas.
Here the basic principal of the law is that you can only and only use violence (in any form) upto a *reasonable* extent to save yourself or someone around you from imminent death or physical harm to the extent that you are kept safe.For constant staring or even him passing sleazy comment – using a pepper spray may not be accepted as “reasonable”. The law expects you to change your position in the metro to save yourself.
You cannot be excessive in your violence.
If someone breaks into my home and I shoot him – i will certainly go to jail for murder. This is not a reasonable reaction.
The courts expects me to maybe hit him or incapacitate the intruder or much better let the intruder steal my shit and for me to run away.Source – I have had run-ins with the law myself for both self-defence (someone threatened me), beating someone (he slapped my senior citizen father), and a few incidents of road rage.
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BThe home one is ridiculous. I’m not gonna ask someone at 2 am in the morning why he broke into my house, I gotta act. The laws really save the bad ones
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MIf someone breaks into your house and you kill them, you are going to jail only if you have the shittiest advocate and some personal enmity with the police officer writing the FIR
OR
You are a lower caste person in UP or Bihar-
SBrother/sister you are delusional.
Please check case law. Just Google self defence cases in Delhi.
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Shttps://indiankanoon.org/doc/1760226/
This was the first that popped up on my Google search
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SBrother read it again. The home owner is the aggressor against a home intruder wherein the home owner kills one intruder with a bow and arrow.
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Shttps://indiankanoon.org/doc/1760226/
The link again
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SHe can fight back case, remember that too.
Some are part of Rackets, and they can hire a lawyer too, so you might get in trouble for harming.
That’s why use the force up to a certain extent, only in extreme dangerous situation use this technique.
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SWhy safety pin? LOL!
NGL, that will make anyone laugh, because like imagine, a man coming to you, you use a safety pin, bro will rather die from cuteness.
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SYeah self defense can extend to death as well in certain circumstances.
Section 100 reads, when the right to private defence extends to causing death- in such circumstances-
1)Such an assault as may reasonably cause the apprehension that death will otherwise be the consequence of such assault;
2)Such an assault as may reasonably cause the apprehension that grievous hurt will otherwise be the consequence of such assault;
3)An assault with the intention of committing rape;
4)An assault with the intention of gratifying unnatural lust;
5)An assault with the intention of kidnapping or abducting;
6)An assault with the intention of wrongfully confining a person, under circumstances which may reasonably cause him to apprehend that he will be unable to have recourse to the public authorities for his release. -
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BNAL-
This is a **serious and complex** question, especially with the way crimes against women have been rising and the **frustration** many women feel with a system that often fails to protect them.
### **Self-Defense in India: What’s Legally Allowed?**
In India, self-defense is **legal** when a person uses **reasonable force** to protect themselves from harm. The law allows for **retaliation** in the event of an attack, but it **must be proportionate** to the threat. In other words, you can defend yourself, but **you cannot escalate** the situation unnecessarily.### 1. If a man gropes or touches a woman inappropriately or **violates her personal space**, that is **criminal behavior** under **Indian Penal Code (IPC) Section 354** (Assault or criminal force to woman with intent to outrage her modesty).
If this happens, **self-defense** is absolutely justified. But there are **limits** to what’s allowed:
**Immediate threat to personal safety**: If someone is physically touching you inappropriately (groping, molesting, etc.), **you have the right to defend yourself**. You can push, slap, or even kick to protect yourself.
**Escalating violence**: However, if the situation is **already under control** (e.g., the attacker has stopped or is retreating), and you **respond by using excessive force** (such as stabbing or shooting), this might **not be seen as self-defense** anymore. That would **likely be considered an assault** and could result in **legal consequences** for the woman.
### 2. The use of **deadly force** (like stabbing or shooting) is **highly restricted** in self-defense laws. It is **not justifiable** unless-
a) There’s an immediate **life-threatening danger**.
b) The attacker is armed or is posing a **grave threat** to your life (e.g., with a knife, weapon, or threatening to cause serious harm).In the case of groping, inappropriate touching, or verbal harassment in a public place like the metro, **it’s highly unlikely** that self-defense would legally allow for stabbing or shooting, unless there’s a clear **imminent danger to life**.
### 3. Let’s assume that it can be **proven** on camera that the man was harassing or molesting the woman. This would **greatly support her case**. However, even in such situations, **retaliation must be proportionate**.
a) **Non-violent retaliation**- If the woman retaliates **non-violently** (slaps, shoves, pushes, or calls for help), she would likely be in the clear, especially if the harassment is on tape.
b) **Excessive retaliation**- If she escalates the violence to **deadly force** (stabbing, shooting), even with proof of harassment, the **legal consequences for her could be severe**. She might still face charges for **excessive force**. She may have a defense under **Section 100** of IPC (which permits deadly force in self-defense), but it will heavily depend on **how the court interprets** the situation.
### 4. a) **Self-defense**: If the woman’s actions are **proportional** to the threat and situation, she will likely not face legal repercussions. In fact, **her actions might be seen as justifiable**, especially with clear evidence of harassment.
b) **Excessive Force**: If it’s judged that she used **excessive force** (such as stabbing or shooting when not required), she could be charged with **assault** or **attempted murder**, and could face imprisonment or legal action. This is **very serious** and would be heavily debated in court based on circumstances and evidence.
### 5. a) **Immediately report the incident** to the police, especially if it’s a case of harassment, molestation, or unwanted physical contact.
b) **File a complaint** under IPC Sections 354, 354A, or 509 (depending on the nature of the crime), and ensure that the **evidence (camera footage)** is presented.### 6. **The Alternative Legal Options Are Available Too-**
a) If the woman is being harassed or molested, she can file for a **protection order** under the **Domestic Violence Act** (even if the person is not a family member), or file an **FIR** for harassment or molestation.b) **Sexual harassment at workplace** laws apply to public spaces too, and she can demand **legal action**, which can include **imprisonment of the accused**.
1. **Avoid violence**: In general, try to **avoid escalating the situation** into a physical confrontation unless absolutely necessary. Call for help or alert others around you if possible.
2. **Document everything**: Take pictures, record incidents, and collect all available evidence. This will help her case if she chooses to report the incident.
3. **File a police report**: Immediately report the incident to the police with clear evidence (witnesses, camera footage, etc.).
4. **Use the legal framework**: Seek a **protection order**, especially in cases of repeated harassment.
5. **Consider self-defense training**: **Learning self-defense** can give confidence, reduce the fear of escalation, and help her better handle such situations without resorting to violence.
While self-defense is a **right**, **deadly force** like stabbing or shooting is **not generally justified** in cases of harassment or molestation unless there is a **grave, life-threatening danger**. The **proportionality of response** is key to ensuring no legal action is taken against the woman in retaliation.
The **best course of action** is to **report the crime immediately**, **seek legal recourse**, and handle the situation with as much **restraint** as possible, using violence only if absolutely necessary for protection.
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CIt depends on the guy doing it too, if he has high contacts in police and court, he can ensure your reputation is ruined and you go to jail
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M😅 I am not looking for ideas. I just wanna know what has the Indian laws done to help me stop such behaviour
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BIndian laws are not same for every Indian. Rapists gets bail but silent protesters are put under NBW 🎅🏾🤬
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MAnswer me this – Someone grabs your daughter’s private parts, stalks her and basically scares her so much that she hates being a woman. What if can’t do anything about it? (In fact that’s no ‘what if’ here)
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IIt is not so simple; to cite self-defence, you must show:
1. Imminent danger.
2. Continuous and/or escalating danger where, unless force was applied to deter or stop it, the situation would likely result in death/grave injury/rape/kidnapping.Also, the force used needs to be proportionate to the threat present and must not be applied in pursuit of revenge.
Following these principles:
1. Pepper spraying someone merely for staring at you would be deemed excessive force, and the girl could face charges.
2. Using pepper spray in response to being groped would be considered reasonable and proportionate.
3. Although groping is a serious offence, it may not cross the threshold required to justify potentially lethal force, and the girl might face serious criminal charges. -
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DIf a woman slaps somebody in public or kicks them on the nuts, is the guy authorised to stab or shoot them?
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ANope even when woman sexually assaults a guy, they have to scream and slap and do self defense like karate, not stab her.
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CLawyer here, as per the penal code (the new BNS), you can of course act in self defence but as others have pointed out, there are limits to the extent you can use self defence to hurt or critically injure the other person.
If someone is staring at you, I’m afraid you can’t do anything to that person physically, other than call him out publicly, move away yourself or just inform any authority/cop that he’s staring and making you uncomfortable.
If, however, someone gropes you, you are well within your rights to physically attack that person but with you bare hands. You can twist their hands, punch/kick them, push them, however, none of these can be lethal moves which you knowingly executed to kill that person. That would be beyond the scope of self defence. However, if let’s say you push them away, they fall back and their head hits a stone and they die, that would not be your fault and in most cases you would get away with it. But if you knowingly hit them in a spot, in a manner, where it’s likely that they’ll die (probably because you know martial arts or something and know critical spots) then you’ll be charged with culpable homicide not amounting to murder. Remember that all this was using your bare hands.
With weapons however, it’s a different ball game. Firstly, carrying a lethal weapon like a knife or a gun itself is a bit problematic on your part, at least in India (unless you’re licensed to have a gun on your person). If, however, you do have it on you and someone gropes you, best you can do is pull out your weapon and threaten them and in most cases any sane person who was just there to grope you (and not planned an abduction or worse) would back away immediately which is what law would expect you to do. You can’t just directly stab someone or shoot them. The law wants you to allow yourself to be safe, not necessarily harm the attacker, that’s for the law to deal with and punish them.
Let’s say they back off once you pull out your weapon but they still come charging at you afterwards, then that is the point you may be allowed to use the weapon but again, you cannot target it at a vital spot where the other person will die soon. You can shoot at legs to stop them or at arm to maim them but not at chest or head. For a knife, you could slash it across hitting whatever comes in the way, but if you actually hold it straight and use motion to actively stab the person in a vital spot then that won’t be right.
Hope that helps, let me know if you have any follow ups. Also, keep in mind that this is theoretical supplemented by some practical experience. Each and every case is different on their own and the outcome can depend on dozens of factors.
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DWhat weapons are legal to carry? Like a pepper spray and a bat? Guns are obviously illegal and what about knives? I’ve read somewhere that a knife with a blade less than 5 inches is legal.
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CPepper spray is legal, yes. Bat is not a weapon per se so legal to carry, but I doubt anyone would be just randomly carrying it around for this purpose, it’s heavy lol. I’m not sure about the small blade knife, it may be legal, if yes, then it can be used in line with how I described in my previous comment.
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MThanks for a very reasonable answer. But just one question, let’s say the victim is martial arts trained and don’t intend to kill but pushed the accused and the accused died- how will this be seen?
Also, similarly, what if the knife was not intended to kill but accidentally did kill- would it still be seen as self defence?-
CIn such situations, the very specifics of how and what was done, the extent of injury caused and how exactly is the death caused, matters. Because, it will come down to showing the intent of the action done by the victim. And to prove intent in court, obviously no one can read minds, it is shown through circumstantial evidence which is why what exactly happened, will determine it.
For example, if you use the knife, you may not intend to kill but it stabs right in the heart, it’ll be extremely difficult to prove that you didn’t intend to kill, but let’s say you just slash it, it cuts the wrist of the attacker and then he bleeds to death in sometime, easier to prove that you didn’t intend to kill. However, it is to be kept in mind that if at all death is caused, it’ll be a difficult case nonetheless and can very well depend on the prosecution and defence lawyers and the judge, how it is interpreted and if any punishment is awarded.
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ECan you shoot or stab them? Yes.
Will there be legal repercussions for you because of this? Yes.
Only way to deal with this is with the legal route, you can cook up a storm if your voice isn’t being heard, call twitter, call women helpline, call NGOs.
Stabbing and shooting them isn’t a proportional response to what they’re doing.
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ISomeone is staring at a women and can she do anything? No. It’s Public place and people are allowed to. Morally wrong and can get into argument but legally nothing much u can do
Gropes a woman in public. Then definitely “Appropriate” force can be used to stop him. Beating him so much so u can get away to a safe distance from him or pepper spray him so u have enough time to get away from him. Also it is followed with legal repercussions on him.
Now, coming to raping a women, courts have ruled in the past that even stabbing a man which may in future result in his death is allowed under self defence when under this circumstance. Note that it’s one or two stab to get away and not 10 to 20 with an intent to kill him.
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QIdk you can hurt them for staring but if they touch can attack them, even if the law doesn’t allow it, you can get of easily, even if “law” don’t allow it they will consider the situation and don’t be harsh, thats what i think but if the person is privileged, yeah you most likely isn’t gonna get justice
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CWhat ever you do make sure there are evidence to back your claim . Like take a video of this guy following you . If there no chance to take video .make eye witness .seek help of others tell them you are followed by this guy . Stab only as last resort .there are things you can do before that .like slap the face or kick his baby maker
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MWow, so many answers just to sympathise with OP.
However, everyone fails to understand that homicide with an intention to kill IS MURDER.
actus non facit reum nisi mens sit rea
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SAgreed, no one is telling her that she can get in trouble too if the man is powerful enough and in emotions they are hyping her up.
Enough force to be safe is enough, otherwise it will go south, since many people in India in future are going against the trust of women words which was made to protect due to false ones.
Right now it’s okay, so she will be saved, but in future this might go in the wrong way.
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Ahttps://www.reddit.com/r/IndiaSpeaks/s/01TqDCh2Rl
Happened to a police woman on camera 😕
Do we have any chance as a common citizen? -
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COk an academic follow up question( not trying to demean the OP) If my google history shows tht I searched for self defence laws related stabbing and killing and then I do stab some1 on pretext of self defence will my searches be used as evidence against me tht i was premeditating the murder and looked up laws to find escape routes?
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