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SBeing a healthy 24 M with 25 LPA in tier 1 city. I am more than capable to raise a kid. My family is getting all those “rishtas” but I don’t want to marry anyone. I just want to continue my lineage and live in peace.
I was searching for surrogacy options for Indian Men, but it’s borderline banned. I’m thinking to go to another country have a baby there via surrogacy and come back to my parents here (can’t leave I have 3 houses in my home town). So are there any laws preventing me for that ?
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Csurrogacy is unethical in general . & banned because it came a cost of pood women who’d carry pregnancies without much gap between , for money , one can argue it’s late stage capitalism as everything about a woman & her Flesh is commodfied if mother lacks essentials like calcium body takes it from her bones to give it foetus for development, body goes through severe trauma & tearing …
One can say well they signed up for it – rich women don’t commercialize their body for money and someone who’s barely making money isn’t consenting , they’re out of options .( miners don’t mine out of passion or their “choice “).
How about in few years there would be artificial womb/ full ectogenesis – it’s not anywhere rn especially for commercial use but Singapore, china (not strict laws laws ) , Switzerland , some US states would have them , you can even edit genes .
if you have made up your mind ,
I think you should do I at 27 , your PFC would be developed by then & till then focus on finances & legal route educate yourself on parenting/child care , psychology etc .
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SThank you for your kind reply. I understand it’s difficult for a woman what she goes through as you’ve stated in first of the 2 paras. But that should not be the case for every woman, there would be exception, rare though.
>How about in few years there would be artificial womb/ full ectogenesis – it’s not anywhere rn especially for commercial use but Singapore, china (not strict laws laws ) , Switzerland , some US states would have them , you can even edit genes .
I’ve deeply researched this Idea on youtube and yeah china succesfully did that on twin girls and they’re HIV immune, but that case is in observation.
I believe in 5 years there would be artificial wombs, but the concerning part would be with legal system, I am hardware engineer and will switch to Biotech career in some years as I’m learning Bio (I’m totally an Engineer guy), but I was great with Bio though.
>I think you should do it at 27
Yes this decision is not instant I execute this idea 3-4 yrs from now on.
>your PFC would be developed by then
My PFC is great right now, as I don’t have any liabilities
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CI think you would find : JIANKUI HE interesting. Look him up .
>I believe in 5 years there would be artificial wombs, but the concerning part would be with legal system, I am hardware engineer and will switch to Biotech career in some years as I’m learning Bio (I’m totally an Engineer guy), but I was great with Bio though.
I’m not sure how that will go politically if you go outside of country as racism and laws , so called 1st world would easily invade & exploit but make it rigid and complicated even for normal legal browns .. maybe after certain amount of money I doesn’t matter as much.
& in india legally to safeguard women’s I think (& hope) women’s association would demand like protection laws .
I’m opposite bio students interested in core engineering & biotech .
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SJiankui He is exactly the guy I was talking about.
I’ve got some professional connection with the chinese & taiwanese as I’ve semiconductor buisness with them, I’ll talk to them regarding laws around these.
> to safeguard women’s I think (& hope) women’s association would demand like protection laws .
If that would be the case, I will register a special appeal to court to closely observe my case and I’ll prove a Man can be great single parent.
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CDamn semiconductor, you’re really a visionary man . Impressive.
problem isn’t a ‘man ‘ , it never was I don’t doubt that you won’t be an incredible father but to safeguard all kids from sexual abuse & exploitation they have to ,they have to think of everyone & that does collateral damage and gross generalization. Most men won’t harm anyone ever .
Also this system works for rich not for justice so they can get away with anything even after being dragged to courts , these NGOs & associations have to think of them also.
It doesn’t automatically makes kids safe , this also is because of ‘ lack of maternal influence ‘ & protection from misconduct. – outdated today.
You know what I think it’ll only go away with LGBTQ marriage rights legalization & them being able to adopt kids as their existence dismantles ” gender patriarchal roles ” , same patriarchy that suggest that a man can’t see woman as human , that by default a woman knows how to be parent – not true .
There are too many cases of men doing stuff to their gf’s child , cousins/brother’s child / married their daughter – incest & power dynamics are messed up , in 2018 a man in MP adopted & married a 14 y/o , later prosecuted under POCSO but it does damage to kid .
Also narcissistic & psychopaths seem so normal from outside , have respectable jobs and demeanour, inside all sorts of hurt and they break person to all extends possible it take survivors years to be near normal in human interaction they impairs human communication of their victims
Again women are also capable of it , this British- Christian laws on marriage have to go away .
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RI didn’t get your arguments. Can you help?
Let’s say there are proper regulations for surrogacy that a woman can become a surrogate once every 4/5yrs, is it still exploitation?
PFC getting fully developed at 26, so, better decision making is a fallacy as the pre frontal cortex develops until around 27 and then deteriorates and we consider 35yo generally more capable to make decisions than even 27yo.
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EWhat if the woman changes her mind once the embryo is implanted? Will she be allowed to terminate it? Can a legal contract prevent her from terminating the pregnancy? How are lifelong complications from pregnancy taken care of for the surrogate? Will the parents be ready to take care of all medical expenses arising out of the complications even after the delivery?
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RThose can be added into regulations. Anyways women are allowed to abort with permission from part DNA donor so, legally that remains IG, just that her payment can have issues. For lifelong complications there can be insurance premiums borne by the legal parent. So, the insurance company bears the costs in case of future issues.
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EYou need to consider the context in which this industry exists. It’s india, a poor country where law enforcement is already terrible. Making it legal would only push poor women into surrogacy (it’s already happening even though it’s illegal) where they are not taken care of.
Sex and pregnancy are two things that shouldn’t be commodified. Women always end up exploited 🙂
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CYeah man argument could have been more structured , I’m glad you mentioned prostitution, many feminist refer to surrogacy as ‘reproductive prostitution ‘ – turning the female body into renatble space for ruch couples genetic legacy [in india add caste to it ]. Womb renting is again reducing women to biological machinery for socio-economic upper class .
You are risking organ &pelvic displacement & pregnancy is fatal for many despite tech advancements. There is no monetary compensation for it .It’s a class exploitation.
Legalization doesn’t mean to removal of exploitation there’s always a way around it especially when rich wants something. India was facing surrogacy tourism ,[white people so called 1st world exploiting indian women ‘3rd world yet again ] (india has one of earliest family planning plan adoption in 1950s – white american couple from silicon valley believed we should not be reproducing & they are superior etc , they managed to mass sterilize men here , we still are taught this as proud thing – i understand the significance but give us students historical context also ) . It was banned as ” reproductive trafficked ” – rightfully so.
even medically forced 5 year gap won’t help body of woman who’s paying the cost uts not just physical labour. You can limit one pregnancy per surrogate but since in legal terms here women have bodily autonomy they can’t be forced to terminate, there’s also parenthood rights issues , how will database keep track of pregnancy per person if they hide it for bribe etc .
I’m not pro prostitution- it’s facilitates abduction, kidnapping , minor & child trafficking for being reduced as object of sexual exploitation for male pleasure and fetishes , it’s again a man can buy access to woman’s body & these women always being ones that were denied education , states away not understanding language or what’s happening to them , ripped of their homes at early age , sold by their fathers or husbands, they have no way out, no rehabilitation, jobs or finances to gt them out , no licence that can ensure age and sexual safety, women catch more severe STDS , UTIs and more painful ones . Also it will overlapmwith substance abuse for obvious reasons which again we don’t really have establishments .
They are not there by enthusiastic or even informed consent. It profit off of poor female diposability .
Even tho I agree Some people as adult both male & Female prostitute want to work & many countries do have better regulations with sexual rights & autonomy- strip clubs & brothels verify ages and are there for help with sexual misconduct , to prevent exploitation. But that’s not reality here no where near this , “demand ” especially for minors kids or young women (thats justrape ) is supplied by nothing remotely ethical.
Even in porn industry – drugging , non- consensual acts , vouyerusim ,violence against women sold as kink , young girls are trafficked from different countries into these , held hostage many times by men known also & across states , they are drug addicts , most exit themselves or od , die early & men usually make all the money they get paid a wage labours . There’s child r tapes & nobody bats an eye , major industry stood against law that needed age 18 as requirements verification of actors.
Rise of people like anderw tate who teach men if she (wife or gf ) really loves you ask her to do SW or OF for you , so you guys can make enough to make comfortable living and if she obliges , do that make money and dump her , not saying women are dumb and can be hypnotized but they usually handout human manipulation tactics &being guy she wants for months & months . In their courses.
although physically safer platform platforms like OF piss people off because creator – a woman (top 1 %) makes direct money , chat rooms exited before but it was men using lonely men to make money .
In india [THE ASSISTED REPRODUCTIVE TECHNOLOGY (REGULATION) 2021](https://dhr.gov.in/document/acts-circulars/assisted-reproductive-technology-regulation-act-2021)
What’s Allowed Now
-Commercial surrogacy = completely banned. No money can exchange hands.-Altruistic surrogac only
(for married Indian heterosexual couples)
– Only a close relative (sister, sister-in-law) can be a surrogate—no payment allowed.– Surrogate must be married + already have a child (to prove she’s not desperate).
– Single women, LGBTQ+, foreigners = banned.
I hope I make sense.
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RInteresting read. Much better arguments.. Most of the statements do make sense.
If you are not pro prostitution, it makes sense that you’ll also dislike surrogacy. If I make an emotional decision then I may also have such biases.
An important aspect missing from your analysis is there is a risk reward calculation here. In future when TFR tanks to below 1.5, more women choose to delay pregnancy until 35 and most marriages break down like in the West (most kids are living in single mom households which have statistical disadvantages and higher crime rates), we’ll anyway go for legalising surrogacy so that people have an alternative.
Every job or service has it’s risks, even then we allow it with proper regulations like the workers in coal mines where they get exploited and get black lungs or workers losing lives or limbs, etc. For a risk to few workers if we started slashing entire jobs then there will be no economy.
Even adoption (though not a service exactly) has risks.
Even OF/cam work (safest sex work?) has it’s risks. One that comes to my mind instantly is that as the income disparity is very huge, it exponentially incentivizes women to perform more extravagant acts because that’s human nature to compete and also human nature for customers to get bored and seek more drastic dopamine hits, so, riskier activities. Top 1% would be getting paid decent and rest very low and there would be heavy platform cuts, manager cuts, etc which will grow. Even, quick money has its own disadvantages too. OF also has casting couch and coerced casting or fraudulently advertised casting instances.
My points – Surrogacy has more advantages than prostitution. If prostitution can be legal then by the same logic surrogacy should be too. We see that even when surrogacy is illegal there is a black market for it, so, similar to how prostitution was de-illegalized and regulatory guidelines issued, so, should be for surrogacy. We anyways have the disadvantages of commercial surrogacy even now but just worst situations for the workers due to lack of proper regulations for it.
Yeah legalization doesn’t by default mean better conditions but rather better regulations is the way. They should be digitalised and tracked swiftly.
Govt should come up with minimum payments (say 20L/50L) and also insurance obligations and abortion rights for surrogates. It would also be easy job to track who took up surrogacy/ was pregnant and when and how many times in a decade due to insurance company and hospitals keeping records.
Current regulations are pretty strict but a lot of them are illogical. Laws are mostly always like that because there is always legacy baggage our representatives don’t give it enough logical thought.
Only a close relative (sister, sister-in-law) can be a surrogate—no payment allowed. => why not compensate someone who provides you with a service? Anyways, even in case of close relatives too there will be payments involved.
already have a child (to prove she’s not desperate) => someone
with kid is more likely to be desperate as we have elastic expenditures bit kids would need stuff like education, would catch diseases often, etc.There is also a current bias in laws where divorced and widowed women are allowed surrogacy while divorced and widowed men are not as if women don’t exploit other women or kids. We are just creating more disgruntled and disenfranchised men as a result of these biases.
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BNot an easy endeavor op. Even if you ho to a foreign country, finding a surrogate as a single male is going to be hard. I don’t need to tell you why, child protection acts are very strict for obvious reasons and social taboos tend to follow. I know that’s the case for us and east europe atleast.
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SWomen breaked many social taboos, we men can too. I’ll set an example of being the world best single father
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UCommercial surrogacy is banned In India . That means you cannot pay someone to be your surrogate but altruistic surrogacy is allowed that is if someone is ready to do it out of love and affection for you .. without receiving monetary compensation for it .. only medical and insurance .. then yes . ( loopholes are always there ) for example a family member would step up for you or a friend etc .. you can also go out of the country and get a surrogate .. it’s absolutely legal .
Commercial Surrogacy got banned because too many poor women were being exploited by touts and there was no regularisation possible.
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SA better thing would be to have a kid the normal way, with NO surrogacy involved; in a country where the law favours men for the child custody (though there are very few). You would save hell lot of money which you could use to compensate fairly to the birth giver for her deed.
At 24, this might not be something you could handle easily in case things get shady, wait until you’re 29 and then enjoy being a dad.
I wish more men were strong enough to follow this idea.
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GNo one gave you correct answer here.I’m a NRI living in USA.What you are looking for is **Commercial surrogacy**. It is allowed in few states here in USA. But it is prohibitively expensive here for someone earning from india. I know plenty of single men who went through surrogacy route rather than getting married.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrogacy_laws_by_country](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrogacy_laws_by_country)
Check this link , It is allowed in russia , kazakhstan and some other countries. It doesn’t cost a 20 to 30k USD. I know couple of indians who went through that.
Good luck
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HIt’s gonna be very difficult battle for you. You will need to get an human egg first. Surrogacy process is expensive but still straight forward in foreign country. But the egg donation part raise ethical question. Many women don’t want that even for fuck you money. I know I will never give my egg to anyone. Like ever. This is gonna be difficult.
Then comes the next step. You will have to apply for citizenship in India for the kid. But the kid is not purely Indian. Gov will find out it’s a foreign egg. Gov has already banned egg donation for Indian women. I am not sure how tolerant laws are for foreign import.
The reason why it’s possible for married couple to have surrogacy is because the wife actually donate the egg. For you, that’s not an option.
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R25LPA is not a lot of money, not enough to afford surrogacy outside of India. Unless you have some hidden wealth, I think you’ll end up broke.
Also, be sure you’re up for it. Do some research. A child is not a pet. Men have a long history of abandoning children the world over. Make sure you’re not going to just do that.
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SSurrogacy has become super strict even for couples after a few celebs misused it to make children without their body image being affected. My sister is a gynaec and couples take reports and tests from her every year to create the paper trail for 3 years to try for surrogacy. Even couples have to prove they are medically ‘infertile’ for 3 years. Indian laws are heavily biased towards woman as a nurturer so much so that even in custody cases they give the kid to the lady even in some cases when she was clinically diagnosed with ‘Mental’ disorder. So legally i heard about ‘Russia’ being open to surrogacy for single males but i heard getting an Indian birth cert and passport from the Embassy might be an issue without a ‘Mothers’ name. Illegally i saw a filthy rich relative of mine who bribed his way and registered the progeny as born out of wedlock.
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DJust from the way you worded this post, I can tell you that you are not ready for raising a child. First thing, who is raising this child in first 6 months? Can you take a 6 month break from your job, assuming the kid is in daycare post that. Are you ready to drop everything at work the instant daycare or the school calls you? It won’t be a rare event, specially calls from daycare. Are you ready to lose ALL of your free time including your sleep for next decade?
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S“continue my lineage” pls for the love of god dont ever have children for the sake of the child. also surrogacy is exploitation of vulnerable women.
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SSurrogacy is not exploitation of women if they’re willing to do. I don’t want a wife, I want to live alone and be happy. I’ll have the kid when I’m fully capable to provide everything in the world to this kid
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Swill and consent cannot be bought in my opinion. if women from unprivileged backgrounds “choose” to do surrogacy to earn money that doesn’t make it non exploitative. their conditions force them to do that. if your family member does that out of love for you then it’s not exploitation but if a woman is willing to put herself in grave danger(pregnancy is scary) and change her body so much for money then it’s just not “free will”. women bodies cant have a price of them. surrogacy is ethically morally and wrong innevery single way.
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